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BluesQuest editor Adam St. James spoke at length with Ellis about Highwayman, his guitar gear and style, how he
learned to sing better, and a favorite subject for both artist and editor alike: the late, great record producer Tom Dowd
(with whom Ellis recorded in 1997.)
Enjoy this in-depth interview, be sure to pick up your own copy of Highwayman, and stop by Tinsley's website TinsleyEllis.com to find out when you can catch him live in your neck of the
woods. Oh yeah, don’t forget to frequent the gracious sponsors of BluesQuest.com either: BluesLessons.com and TrueFire.com
BluesQuest.com: Hi Tinsley, it's Adam from BluesQuest.com.
Tinsley Ellis: Hi Adam.
BluesQuest.com: So you've got a new live disc out on Alligator Records, Highwayman, tell us what's goin' on in
your world.
Ellis: It's all startin' up with the CD coming out. They've got me doing one interview after the next.
BluesQuest.com: That's good.
Ellis: It's a good thing. Any kind of roots-oriented artist lives from CD to CD, so this is a good time.
BluesQuest.com: Well, the CD sounds great, and I've seen you play – in fact I played a festival with you down in Ft.
Lauderdale a few years back.
Ellis: The Riverfest?
BluesQuest.com: No, it wasn't that one, it was the one that lady put on, FranniPalooza I think it was called.
Ellis: Franni, yeah! That would have been at Schneider Park in Ft. Lauderdale.
BluesQuest.com: I think so. Yeah!
Ellis: And it would have been in 1999.
BluesQuest.com: Something like that, exactly!
Ellis: FranniPalooza – it was on Memorial Day, 1999. So it would have been six years ago right now.
BluesQuest.com: You're right as a matter of fact! It was Memorial Day. Wow, what a memory!
Ellis: Well, I can remember stuff like that. I can't remember stuff from last week as well (laughs).
BluesQuest.com: I hear ya. I can usually remember dates pretty well, but I have a hard time remembering how my songs
go sometimes. (laughs).
Ellis: I'd rather remember the songs and forget the dates.
BluesQuest.com: Yeah, me too. So you did this new live album at Chord On Blues, which is a great blues club here in
the Chicago suburbs, in St. Charles. I've shot video of some great blues artists out there in years past.
Ellis: It's a great place, and I'm so glad we were able to work that out. The owner, Steve, is a good guy.
BluesQuest.com: He's a huge supporter of the blues. I think Howard and the White Boys and maybe even Ronnie Baker
Brooks have done live albums out there.
Ellis: Yeah, he's a huge supporter. And a lot of our fans flew in from all over the country for the gig. I think we had 11 or
12 states represented. It worked out great.
BluesQuest.com: And it's probably one of the classiest blues rooms in the country.
Ellis: Yeah, that doesn't call itself "House of Blues." Yeah, it's a great one, and we'll be there on Friday the 15th
of July (2005) for our CD release party.
BluesQuest.com: Great, I'll be there. So you did two nights for this recording, nailed a bunch of them the first
night…
Ellis: Yeah, we did.
BluesQuest.com: And you mixed it within a couple days so it was all very fresh and spontaneous.
Ellis: The whole thing was the most effortless album I've ever made. The whole thing went down in a week.
BluesQuest.com: That's got to be relieving.
BluesQuest Recommends: Ellis: Well, with a live album, it's like sports photography. You capture the shot, as opposed to something you pose and
primp, like with portrait photography. So a lot of the hard work on the album was done over the past 20 years, with the
songs. And we had two nights to do, when in there, and things went our way. And if they hadn't gone our way, we would have
had the second night as well. The second night was such a relief because we'd recorded so much good stuff the first night, we
knew we had it.
BluesQuest.com: And unlike a lot of live albums – no overdubs of any kind?
Ellis: Not a single overdub. And that's the reason we were able to do it in such a short amount of time. When you
start getting into overdubs, and start trying to make things sound like they really happened, it really delays the moment of
truth.
BluesQuest.com: And then you get carried away trying to fix little things, and then the next thing and the next
thing.
Ellis: I know. And the smallest increment of time that exists in a recording studio is one hour. If you say, "I wanna
work on that vocal." One hour. "I need a little less high end on the hi-hat." One hour.
BluesQuest.com: Yeah, that's the agony of the recording studio. So you're back with Alligator Records after a few
years away.
Ellis: That's a wonderful thing.
BluesQuest.com: I don't even know what's up with Capricorn Records, where you went for a few years. Do they still
exist?
Ellis: I was the last album project at Capricorn, which is a dubious distinction that seems to be reserved for
bluesmen. It seems like something that would happen to Otis Rush or someone. You get your big shot at the major label, and
then get caught up in the wheels of big business. So yeah, it could have been so good – but hell, I'm lucky the thing came
out at all, to tell you the truth. So I'm back where I belong, at Alligator Records.
BluesQuest.com: It's got to feel like family.
Ellis: Yeah, they really promote their artists well at Alligator. And I learned that lesson the hard way.
BluesQuest.com: So tell me about the guys you've got in the band right now. Have they all been with you for awhile?
Ellis: Yes, they're all on the album and we've been together – the bass player who goes by the name, "The Evil One,"
has been with me for the better part of 20 years, off and on. And then (drummer) Jeff Burch and (keyboardist) Todd Hamric
have been with me over a year now – and that's an eternity in the music world.
We went out and did a lot of shows in preparation for this album. We did 11 weeks on the road, like five nights a
week, and really worked on the material. And the songs we chose were a few off each albums we've done over the past 10 or 12
years. And we allowed our fans to visit my website, TinsleyEllis.com,
and send in song selections. And they did it, and it was nice because the songs they chose pretty much matched up with the
songs Alligator president Bruce Iglauer and I chose, which is a good thing.
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BluesQuest.com: Let's talk about your guitars and your gear. We're pretty player friendly here at BluesQuest.com. You
know, besides BluesQuest.com, I run a site called BluesLessons.com,
on which we sell blues concert DVDs and thousands of music instructional products….
Ellis: I know about that site! I'm very familiar with that. Some of my fans have been talking about that.
BluesQuest.com: Well, I do BluesLessons.com in the hopes that a few BluesQuest visitors will click through and buy
something, basically to support my journalism habit! That's the game plan. If it works I'll be able to keep doing these
interviews.
Ellis: Let me tell you, the modern day person starting out playing guitar now has got it infinitely better than I
did…
BluesQuest.com: And me too.
Ellis: I remember slowing down Johnny Winter vinyl records to 17 rpm and then having to play the licks an octave
lower – and it was roughly the same note because it's half-speed. That's how I learned how to play. And nowadays, it's all
there for the kid to do it. And we didn't know about open tuning. I remember, as a young guy, trying to figure out Albert
Collins. And it wasn't until Guitar Player magazine told me how Albert Collins did it…
BluesQuest.com: Right.
Ellis: And it wasn't until some older guys hipped me – they said, 'Hey, if you want to sound like Albert King, use
skinny strings and don't use a pick.' And I tried it and went 'Oh yeah!' But it was all word of mouth back then. Nowadays
it's all there in black and white.
BluesQuest.com: So that's how he got those big monster bends?
Ellis: Well, no, actually, my strings – I use an .011 through .048.
BluesQuest.com: I mean Albert King. See I didn't even know that.
Ellis: Oh Albert, yeah. He used a real skinny string, like an .008 or a .009.
BluesQuest.com: Wow. Yeah, and I torture myself trying to hit his bends on .011s!
Ellis: I know (laughs). Like Stevie Ray Vaughan – he tuned down, but he used .013s.
BluesQuest.com: I interviewed his guitar tech, Rene Martinez, a couple years back for Guitar.com (we'll repost that
article on BluesQuest in the near future). Do you know Rene?
Ellis: Yes I do.
BluesQuest.com: And he told me, 'Everybody knows that Stevie used .013s, but after awhile, on the road, I convinced
him to go down to .011s just so he wouldn't wear out his fingers so much.' So he did go down to .011s.
Ellis: Uh huh. That's good to know because there seems to be a big tone difference between .010 and .011. A .010 goes
'tink, tink' and an .011 goes 'ring, ring.'
BluesQuest.com: Oh yeah.
Ellis: But there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference between an .011 and a .012. So the .011 does like 95
percent of what a .012 or a .013 would do, whereas a .010 doesn't do nearly what an .011 would do. An .011 does it all for
me. Who wants to break strings all night? You break a string on a Stratocaster and you have to put it right down.
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checkout: quest123 BluesQuest.com: Right. So tell me about the gear you use on stage. Do you have one main guitar you've been using for
years and years?
Ellis: I have two main guitars. I have a Stratocaster with a '59 neck and a '61 body and parts. Rosewood. And I have
a '67 Gibson ES 345. And I play them through a Fender Super Reverb, pretty much straight in.
BluesQuest.com: Pretty much, or completely straight in?
Ellis: Pretty much.
BluesQuest.com: What else do you have there?
Ellis: I've got a wah-wah pedal that somebody gave me. It's a boutique wah-wah pedal and I can't think of the name of
it. It's made in Spartanburg or Greenburg, South Carolina. It's a true bypass so when it's off, it's off. I don't know the
name of it, but it's based on the Cry Baby, and I love it. I should know the name of it. The guy came up and gave it to me.
He gave one to Anthony Gomes as well.
I've also got a Nobels – it's not a distortion pedal – it's a Nobel's Overdrive. I don't use it much on the Gibson, but I use
it a little on the Strat. And I use it for EQ rather than fuzz tone, just to boost the mids a little bit.
BluesQuest.com: And then the Super Reverb, is that a newer one or an older one?
Ellis: It's a '65.
BluesQuest.com: So how long have you had these guitars and amps? You weren't the original owner, were you?
Ellis: I've had them since the '70s.
BluesQuest.com: Where did you pick them up?
Ellis: I got the amp from Tommy Doucette, who was the harmonica player on the Allman Brothers Fillmore East and
Eat A Peach albums, and Idyllwild South. It was his harmonica amp. And I got the Strat back in the '70s when
nobody was talkin' Stratocaster – everybody was talkin' Les Paul or a Gibson Firebird. I traded a four-track tape deck for
that Strat.
BluesQuest.com: Was that an old Teac?
Ellis: No, what was the other one. It was a Japanese sounding name. But anyway, I thought that was a good trade at
the time.
BluesQuest.com: Sure.
Ellis: I paid $700 for the tape deck, got some use out of it, then traded it for a nice old rosewood Strat.
BluesQuest.com: So have you done anything to these guitars?
Ellis: No, they're pretty much stock.
BluesQuest.com: Even the pickups?
Ellis: Yeah, even the pickups. Definitely stock. I've been told by many guitarists who've played my guitars that
they're 'unplayable.' (laughs) But you know what, I played Stevie Ray's – remember that old beat up Strat that he used to
play? It was not a good playing guitar.
BluesQuest.com: Really?
Ellis: His action was high, his strings were heavy. It's what you're used to.
BluesQuest.com: Do you set your action high?
Ellis: Yes. I get the guitars worked on every once in awhile, when I absolutely have to. And they give them back to
me and I usually say, 'This plays too good, can you make it play worse.'
BluesQuest.com: (laughs)
Ellis: I like to fight a guitar. That's how I get a ringing tone out of a Strat. You raise that action up and the
strings just ring.
BluesQuest.com: Are these three-position pickup selectors on your Strat?
Ellis: Five.
BluesQuest.com: Do you change that selector a lot?
Ellis: Oh yeah. And on a Gibson I use the Varitone on the 345 quite a bit, that five-way selector knob. You can
really hear it on the album on "A Quitter Never Wins," in particular.
BluesQuest.com: And what about the volume, do you play with that a lot?
Ellis: A lot.
BluesQuest.com: What kind of strings do you use?
Ellis: Ernie Ball, the ones in the silver pack – Power Slinkys. I like those strings.
BluesQuest.com: So it's like a .011 to .046?
Ellis: I think that's it. And if you wipe them down every night you can get several nights out of them. If you don't
wipe them down every night, they go dead in the case. That's the key to string saving: cleaning them off every night,
especially if you've got greasy hands like I do.
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checkout: quest123 BluesQuest.com: So what's the plan for this summer? I'm sure you're going to be on the road a lot.
Ellis: Yes, go to TinsleyEllis.com and you can see a tour of
all four corners of the country: from South Florida to the Northeast to Seattle to L.A. That's how we do it. Our music is not
the type of music that's on MTV or radio or late night TV, unfortunately. We've got to go out and really put it in people's
faces, and wear them out with it as much as we can, on the bandstand.
BluesQuest.com: But back in your youth, that's what you wanted to do anyway, right?
Ellis: That's really what I wanted to do, although – I'm 48 – but basically watching the Monkees on TV… I was prime
time Monkees and "Hard Days Night." And they never showed the Monkees loading their gear (laughs). They always ended up back
there at the groovy crash pad with the chicks. They never showed all the truck stops and motels…
BluesQuest.com: And arguing with the record company for a little more money… Somehow they just didn't show that
(laughs).
Ellis: Well yeah. Ricky Riccardo never went on the road either. So yeah, it's a lot different than what I thought it
would be. But on the other side of the coin, if someone would have told me, when I was 16, that I would have sat in with the
Allman Brothers, and Otis Rush, and Buddy Guy, and Albert Collins – that would have been my idea of making it. So yeah,
there's been a lot of good stuff. You tend to hang on to that good stuff, and tend to forget about the Tuesday night gig at
the disco in Florence, South Carolina. You have to go through a lot of those before the good stuff happens.
BluesQuest.com: That's for sure.
Ellis: And you've got to do a lot of those things after the good stuff happens too, unfortunately.
BluesQuest.com: Yeah. So summer is festival season, so you'll be out there hitting a few festivals, right?
Ellis: Oh yeah, all over the country.
BluesQuest.com: What are some of the nicest venues that you play at these festivals? I suppose some of them have a
nice scenic view, even from the stage.
Ellis: We've got some of those coming up. We're doing the RiverBend Festival in Chattanooga. One of my favorite ones
is the Santa Cruz Blues Festival – what a beautiful location, in a natural bowl amphitheater. I've got so many of them this
summer, from Oregon to Connecticut. We're doing the Riverfront Blues Festival in Ft. Lauderdale.
BluesQuest.com: That's a huge festival, and a great location. I've been to that many times.
Ellis: That's where I grew up, in Broward County, Florida.
BluesQuest.com: That's right. You know we did speak when I was the music editor at Miami New Times in the late '90s.
And I did an article on you then.
Ellis: That might have been when I was still on Alligator and did the album with Tom Dowd.
BluesQuest.com: Probably.
Ellis: That would be the Tom Dowd connection, because he was a Miami guy.
BluesQuest.com: Yeah, probably, because I interviewed him down there and wrote about him for Home Recording
magazine.
(Editor's note: My Tom Dowd interview appeared in the April, 2000, edition of Home Recording. Unfortunately,
magazines have severe word limitations, so only a tiny fraction of all the things Dowd and I spoke about – and we're talking
serious musical history, folks – fit in that article. Sooner or later I'll put more of that incredible interview right here
on BluesQuest.com. In case you don't recognize the name, Tom Dowd produced most of the Allman Brothers albums, Eric Clapton's
Layla and 461 Ocean Blvd. sessions, lots of Lynyrd Skynyrd, and literally hundreds of major albums/artists in a career that
spanned from the beginnings of Atlantic Records in 1947 until his passing in 2002. )
Ellis: He was amazing! What a guy.
BluesQuest Recommends: BluesQuest.com: I know, he really was. I really had always hoped that I'd be able to spend more time with him down the
road. What a guy, and what a bunch of amazing stories he had about basically everyone who is anyone in the music business
since 1947.
Ellis: You know, we recorded that album with him (Fire
It Up) and he brought Duck Dunn along to play bass. I had the ultimate Eric Clapton – Albert King fantasy going. Just
the stories those two guys would tell! It was amazing.
BluesQuest.com: Did he ever tell you about driving in the car with Ray Charles – with Ray driving?
Ellis: NO! That sounds like a myth! (laughs)
BluesQuest.com: But Dowd didn't joke around. He told me it happened and I believe him.
Ellis: I've heard about Ray Charles flying a plane…
BluesQuest.com: Yeah. I was waiting to see something about that in the movie "Ray," because of course Dowd is
represented throughout that movie, engineering Ray's recordings along with Ahmet Ertegun and Jerry Wexler (the Atlantic
Records honchos and record producers in the movie who keep advising Ray on how to play/sing/record, etc.) But it wasn't in
there. So I've got Tom Dowd on tape saying it, and I believe it's true. He said Ray picked him up at a studio in a Corvette
and, well, that's for another BluesQuest interview…
Ellis: No way! Tom was too smart to get in a car driven by a blindman! Isn't that wonderful! What a great story.
BluesQuest.com: Did you work with Tom a couple times?
Ellis: No, just that one time on the Fire It Up album. And when I was up making the live album this year and I
was staying over at Bruce Iglauer's house, we were talking about all the – because we hadn't really kept in touch that much
over the years – and we were talking about some of the albums. We did so many albums together. And I said, 'Can you
believe that we made an album with Tom Dowd!' At the time it seemed like, 'this is great, we're doing it.' But now
that he's gone, all the stuff that Bruce and I learned in the studio from the guy – it's amazing. He was the engineer, he was
the arranger. He would take songs completely apart. He would use all different methods of coaxing a good performance out of
you: Praise, and anger, and…. He was really, really good at it. And he worked right up to the end, so that's good.
BluesQuest.com: And he would have kept on working for many years to come, knowing Tom. (Cancer took Tom Dowd's life on
October 27, 2002, after almost 60 years in the music industry.) Did you record that album in Miami?
Ellis: No, we did it here in Atlanta at Southern Tracks.
BluesQuest.com: When I interviewed him I was living in Miami, and we got together at his condo and at Criteria Studios
for a photo shoot. I made it down to Criteria a few times, but that time with him was the best. He pulled out the piano and
started playing – he was really good – and then he said, "This is the piano that "Layla" was recorded on."
Ellis: "We're not worthy!"
BluesQuest.com: Yeah, that's exactly how I felt.
BluesQuest Recommends: Ellis: So you're a fan like me: You get into stuff (laughs).
BluesQuest.com: Oh yeah.
Ellis: That's important, because that's all you're left with. And of course you saw the Tom Dowd documentary. (Tom Dowd & The Language of Music)
BluesQuest.com: That videographer spent seven years around Tom!
Ellis: Yeah, that was really well done.
BluesQuest.com: Yeah. Let's get back to you now: probably a subject you know more about. (laughs)
Ellis: Well, Tom Dowd's a part of what I'm a part of…
BluesQuest.com: So what do you listen to these days? What keeps you fired up?
Ellis: I listen to everybody's demo tape or demo CD that they give me.
BluesQuest.com: Do you get a lot?
Ellis: Yep. From labels and from opening acts, and people in the audience. And I actually learn as much from those as
I do from albums that I listen to. Let me just look in my stereo and see what I've got in there that I'm listening to right
now: B.B. King, Blues Is King; Otis Rush, Ain't Enough Comin' In; Fleetwood Mac, Live at the Boston Tea
Party; Lonnie Brooks, Turn Up The Night; and a big old stack of demos. I listen to Leo Kottke.
BluesQuest.com: Have any of these people who've given you demos gone on to have notable careers, that you know of?
Ellis: Yes, they have, actually. And I've actually recorded some songs off of people's tapes – and they were very
appreciative.
BluesQuest.com: Cool. So if you're a songwriter, somebody like Tinsley Ellis is open to taking a listen.
Ellis: Well, I think anybody who stays around the business long enough needs to keep their ear to the track and see
what's comin' and what's goin'. I can think of all of these people who have opened for me over the years, and gone on their
way to surpass me.
BluesQuest.com: Really?
Ellis: Oh my gosh, yeah: Johnny Lang…
BluesQuest.com: Who has recorded a track of yours.
Ellis: Yeah. And Derek Trucks. It's a very long list. I used to think, 'If you want to get famous, just open for
Tinsley Ellis.' It's nice. You treat people right, and they'll be nice to you on their way up, hopefully. Jonny Lang played
for the first time at Buddy Guy's opening for me, and played for the first time in New York City opening for me. He would get
up and do "A Quitter Never Wins," with us. And I just watched his album climb the charts… In my living room I've got a
platinum CD for the album, as a songwriter. It sold millions of copies.
BluesQuest.com: And that helped you pay a few bills I suppose.
Ellis: It was very nice. And then the tables turned, and we were Jonny Lang's opening act, and he couldn't have been
nicer to us. It was great. So it's good when it works out like that.
BluesQuest Recommends: BluesQuest.com: I was an editor with Fender Frontline magazine at the time he came along at 16, and they were setting him
up with guitars and all that. The hot new teenager.
Ellis: Yeah, that's a scary trend. For a second there it looked like you couldn't be a blues star unless you looked
like a teenage underwear model.
BluesQuest.com: Yeah, exactly. (laughs). You've probably played shows with Kenny Wayne Shepherd over the years as
well.
Ellis: No I haven't, actually. I admire his work. He's a great guitar player.
BluesQuest.com: Yes he is. He's taken over singing a lot of his material now, and is now relying on his former
frontman less.
Ellis: Well, you and I are from the era and mindset where, just like B.B. King or Johnny Winter, or Freddie King –
you play a lick and sing a lick. And if you have a dedicated guitarist and a separate dedicated singer, there's just not that
coupling between the call and response. You get a call… and a response. It doesn't lay together like that. That's why I
always track my guitar solos and lead vocals at the same time. It's just the way they lay together, sometimes it's the
attack.
BluesQuest.com: Well that's some good advice.
Ellis: And it also presents to the audience a total package.
BluesQuest.com: When you first started playing, did you sing too, or did it take awhile?
Ellis: I sang always like a featured, one-song-per-set kind of thing. I was here in Atlanta in the early '80s,
working with different singers like Nappy Brown, and Chicago Bob Nelson. I would do one song. And then one day I noticed the
singer and it was not good at the beginning. I was very tentative, and I took a lot of heat.
Some people, like Jonny Lang, can just step up to the mic at the age of 13 and deliver. Others of us have to really work on
it. And we need people like Bruce Iglauer in our lives to say things to us like, 'You know that song you do where you hit
that really high note? Don't do that song anymore! That doesn't sound good.' He has to police your material. And then you
want to kill the messenger when they break that kind of news to you (laughs), but it's necessary.
I'm one of those people who really has to work on it. That's one of the reasons I didn't do a live album for so long, and
that's one of the reasons I really chose the material on this one. I wanted to make sure it was not going to be an album
which exposed a weak side. It's like any time you're talking about a Caucasian, blues-singing, guitar player, the vocals are
probably going to be the weak link.
So I'm pretty please with the way it came out, with no overdubs. And we had three different versions to choose from too, in
some cases. So that helps.
BluesQuest.com: Yes it is. Do you ever just practice singing, or even just sing in the shower or something?
Ellis: I have a studio in my basement and I do the demos, and I work out the key and everything. The key is the big
thing. The two producers I've worked with over the years who helped me the most over the years were Tom Dowd and David Z.
Those guys really… Tom Dowd gave me the start into being a better singer – gave me a lot of insight into it. And David Z,
when I made that album for Capricorn (Kingpin), he really hit the point home. He's probably my best vocal coach.
BluesQuest.com: What kind of advice did he give you?
Ellis: He told me not to draw out long vocal phrases, because that was the white, operatic, European way to sing. He
told me to sing more in clipped phrases, because that's more poly-rhythmic, Gospel sounding. He tried to get me to sing at
the top of my vocal range, key-wise, but not over, because there would be a lot more energy in the music. You push it right
to the point of excitement, instead of singing monotone. You get it right up to the top, take it over and then bring it back
a half-step.
BluesQuest.com: That sounds like good advice.
Ellis: And Tom Dowd told me not to sing with your mouth in an "O" shape. He told me to sing with my mouth wide…
BluesQuest.com: With a smile…
Ellis: Yeah.
BluesQuest.com: Did he show you the match trick?
Ellis: The what? Where the match doesn't go out?
BluesQuest.com: Yeah. If you sing with a smile on your face, you can't blow out a match held right in front of your
mouth – and therefore you're not going to pop the microphone. And if you don't pop the microphone, the soundman can turn your
mic volume up more, which then of course makes it easier to sing and hear yourself, which keeps you from wearing yourself
out.
Ellis: I remember that!
BluesQuest.com: He told me he taught that to Aretha, and Rod Stewart.
Ellis: Right – elongate your mouth and not pucker it up. That's a rule that I always break, but at least it's nice to
recognize what I'm doing wrong.
BluesQuest.com: Well, breaking through the denial is the first step to recovery, right?
Ellis: Right. Well, you're talkin' my kind of talk. And then I had a female back-up singer on one album who taught me
how to breathe and sing from my diaphragm, instead of from my throat. And although I thought I understood what that meant,
she taught me how to do it.
BluesQuest.com: That takes practice.
Ellis: It was when I was making the Hell or High Water CD in 2000, and she was in there doing some background
vocals, and then stayed around watching me do some overdubs. She took me aside and said, 'I see you breathing in through your
mouth before you sing. Breathe in through your nose and it will fill up your diaphragm.' And it was like an epiphany. This is
what I've been hearing about for all these years! And now when I'm on stage and I'm singing a ballad, and I breathe in
through my nose and fill up my diaphragm as much as I can, now I can get the note, and it sounds powerful, and it sounds
good. The downside of it is that if you do that enough, you feel like you're gonna pass out. You almost get high.
BluesQuest.com: I'm trying that as you say it, and you're right. Breathing in through your nose does fill your
diaphragm better than when you sing through your mouth.
Ellis: Are you a singer, Adam?
BluesQuest.com: Yes.
Ellis: Well the next the gig you do, if you're singing a song you've had trouble with – if you listen to the play
back and you think, I don't sing that song as well as some of the others – if, between phrases, don't breathe in through your
mouth like 99.9 percent of singers do. Fill you body up with air through your nose and you'll get tons more air, and if you
don't hold the note out, the notes themselves sound better.
BluesQuest.com: I'll try that. But how do you remember to do that in the heat of battle?
Ellis: You just do.
BluesQuest.com: You just train yourself, doing it over and over, and eventually it becomes unconscious.
Ellis: Yeah, it's one of those things – like I was saying earlier: I really have to work on my vocals. I'm not a
natural. You get a guy like Buddy Guy, and that guy can sing the phone book. Whereas like me, there's so many songs I want to
do. I want to sing Marvin Gaye songs but guess what: I just can't do it. So I have to really police the material, police the
keys, police the tempo – everything. It would be nice to be like a Buddy Guy, a total natural singer. But some of us aren't.
And we have to really make sure we're not making asses of ourselves.
BluesQuest.com: You know, the breathing through the nose thing is something I'd heard years ago in relation to sports:
When you're running, you want to breathe in through your nose, and breathe out through you mouth.
Ellis: It's not the easy thing to do.
BluesQuest.com: No, it isn't. And I'd never even considered that advice in relation to singing. I'm definitely going
to work on that.
Ellis: You try that and let me know how it worked out. I'm big on it. I just never heard it put that way. She told me
how to do it, and I went in there and all the sudden it seemed like I was singing better than I'd ever sung before. And then
I said, 'Can I record the last seven albums over again?' (laughs).
BluesQuest Recommends: BluesQuest.com: Cool. So do you play acoustic guitar once in awhile?
Ellis: Yes I do. I've got a Washburn Cumberland. And we actually recorded a good amount of acoustic material for this
live album, but it didn't make it on there. In fact, we've got enough good material for a whole other album. There's about a
half-dozen acoustic songs, and more electric stuff too. Bruce and I had a hard time deciding which songs to be on the album.
And we had an even harder time deciding which versions to put on there.
BluesQuest.com: When you're playing acoustic, do you approach the instrument differently?
Ellis: Well, you've got to put a lot more – you've got to manhandle it a little more. Especially if you do it like I
do. I'm kind of a Pete Townshend type thrasher on the acoustic guitar. Son House, Charley Patton like. A lot more body
English seems to go into it, at least the way I do it. Unless I'm having a James Taylor moment, which I like to do from time
to time – but not on this album, at the request of my label president. He doesn't like that side of my music. I do, but he
doesn't like to feature it at all.
BluesQuest.com: Oh well.
Ellis: Yeah. Maybe he knows something I don't.
BluesQuest.com: Well, he's doing well.
Ellis: Yeah.
BluesQuest.com: So you've called Atlanta home for a long time, haven't you.
Ellis: Since 1977. In fact I was born here in '57.
BluesQuest.com: It's a good mid-point for touring, isn't it?
Ellis: I used to think so, but now it seems like most of my good work is up around the Lakes and on the West Coast.
BluesQuest.com: Those areas have picked up for blues?
Ellis: They've always been good. But the Southeast, which is where this music came from, is not where this music is
most appreciated. If you go to Mississippi, you see R.L. Burnside and he's playing a little gas station. You go see him
somewhere else, and he's in a theatre. That's the way it is.
BluesQuest.com: What about international gigs?
Ellis: I've been over to Europe many, many times. Australia. South America. Canada has been real good to me over the
years. We're primarily an American band, though. And my music borders – certainly – on Southern Rock. I think European
audiences, if they have a blues act, they want the whole package. They prefer African-American blues acts – as do I. And if
they can't have that, then they want some pompadours and retro outfits. And I don't fit that mold either. So I think
internationally I slip somewhat between the cracks. And if you look at the amount of gigs the Allman Brothers have done
overseas, and I can't even remember the last time they went to Europe.
BluesQuest.com: Really? I didn't realize that.
Ellis: Do you know that Elvis Presley never played in Europe?
BluesQuest.com: No, I didn't. Wow. There's somethin' funny goin' on there. (laughs) (hey, I'm joking!)
Ellis: Well, another thing that's interesting about Europe is that you can be a gigantic star in Europe, and be an
American, and then come back to America and have no circuit whatsoever.
BluesQuest.com: Like Luther Allison.
Ellis: Well, he built it up, of course. But there's a lot of people like that. I would say I have a great circuit
here in the States, but I don't particularly have a circuit over there. I might go over and do a festival or two, and connect
it with some club dates. There's something about that big body of water.
BluesQuest.com: What about Australia?
Ellis: Australia I enjoy very much. It really rocks.
BluesQuest.com: Is it more conducive than Europe, people leaning more toward rock-blues?
Ellis: Oh yeah, they definitely do that. And actually Europe is turning that way too.
BluesQuest.com: That's kind of where I fit in. I'm a long-haired guy, grew up on blues rock and Southern Rock, and I
play blues with a rock edge. I don't fit the pompadour mold, and I've wondered about that from the marketing side.
Ellis: You might not be big in France (laughs). I don't know that I'm every going to be a big name in Europe, but I'm
certainly going to keep trying. It would be nice to have it catch on and have that be yet another place to play. But I've
been looking at my itinerary that just got emailed to me, and the places that I play: certainly Atlanta, Memphis, New York,
Des Moines, Charlotte, Las Vegas, Portland, Seattle, Denver, Chicago – that's my circuit. I know that's where I need to be
playing. I sing very American, working-class themes, and I'm also a long-haired, Allman Brothers-loving musician, and so, I
is what I is. That's why I hired Tom Dowd: The ultimate Southern Rocker's fantasy.
BluesQuest.com: Oh yeah, that's true. When you're out supporting an album with live shows, or not being able to make
it to a certain area, how much of an album sales difference does it really make? Would you sell a few more albums because you
played there, or would you sell a thousand percent more albums after a show there?
Ellis: A lot of times it has to do with whether there's a cool radio station there that plays your albums, or whether
it's all programmed radio coming out of some corporate headquarters. An example of where I do well is Des Moines, Iowa.
There's great record stores there. Great promoters. Really good specialty music shows, mixed with a little bit of real
airplay. When all that stuff comes together is when it happens. When none of it comes together, then it generally doesn't
happen. So I kind of have my little pockets of popularity.
BluesQuest Recommends: BluesQuest.com: And how do you see satellite radio affecting all this? Certainly it's got to help.
Ellis: Oh it's a welcome addition to what we do. It's wonderful.
BluesQuest.com: Have you done any interviews for satellite radio?
Ellis: I haven't done any yet. I need to. That's something that Alligator stresses above the other labels because
they know it's something you can get. It's on the "can-get" list, so you have to go after those things first.
BluesQuest.com: Well, another thing on your can-get list, I'd love to sit down with you in the future and shoot a
video guitar lesson for BluesQuest.
Ellis: I'd love to do that!
BluesQuest.com: Well, great Tinsley! Thanks so much for your time today, and have fun out there this summer on the
road!
Ellis: Thank you so much Adam! Take care. More Cool Stuff Related to Tinsley Ellis and Rock/Blues Guitar Playing:
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SAVE 20% - BluesQuest
members get 20% off any purchase at TrueFire with this promo code during
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Related Links
TinsleyEllis.com Tinsley's official website.Alligator.com The band's record label.
BluesLessons.com
TrueFire.com